Victory Over Florida State

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Victory Over Florida State

Postby dabres » December 7th, 2011, 4:47 pm

What would a victory over Florida State mean for Brian Kelly’s future at Notre Dame? Would nine and four mean that he is making real progress? Would alumni, players and potential recruits start to see Brian Kelly as someone who could become a good coach?
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Re: Victory Over Florida State

Postby coach_kelly » December 7th, 2011, 6:46 pm

2007 - Charlie Weis 3-9
2008 - Charlie Weis 7-6
2009 - Charlie Weis 6-6
2010 - Brian Kelly 8-5
2011 - Brian Kelly 8-4*

*Victory over FSU 9-4, a loss is 8-5.

What I find the most impressive is his record since the Utah game. From the starting blocks he took a 4-5 start. Things looked pretty grim for old Brian Kelly. Since that start the team is 12-4. The same squad that could barely attain a 0.500 season are winning 75% of their games! I know, I know, we are Notre Dame and we expect more, but we're getting it every game. Let's look at it from this angle -


2007 Charlie Weis 3-9

Georgia Tech L 33-3
@Penn State L 31-10
@Michigan L 38-0
Michigan State L 31-14
@Purdue L 33-19
UCLA W 20-6
Boston College L 27-14
USC L 38-0
Navy L 46-44 OT
Air Force L 41-24
Duke W 28-7
@Stanford W 21-14

2007 was potentially the worst year in the history of the program. Shut out twice and allowing opponents to score more than 30 points 8 (!) times. This is the definition of losing big. All kinds of excuses were made for a coach that had previously gone 10-3 and 9-3. A guy who had gone to BCS bowls the past 2 years.

2008 Charlie Weis 7-6

San Diego State W 20-13
Michigan W 35-17
@Michigan State L 23-7
Purdue W 38-21
Stanford W 28-21
@North Carolina L 29-24
@Washington W 33-7
Pitt L 36-33
Boston College L 17-0
@Navy W 27-21
Syracuse L 24-23
@USC L 38-3
Hawaii W 49-21

2008 had some of the markings for improvement. It also had some pretty scary things going on. Loss to Syracuse, shut out by Boston College, 3 points versus USC.

2009 Charlie Weis 6-6

Nevada W 35-0
@Michigan L 38-34
Michigan State W 33-30
@Purdue W 24-21
Washington W 37-30 OT
USC L 34-27
Boston College W 20-16
Washington State W 40-14

I will hit pause at this point in the season. The Irish are 6-2 with some easy games coming up. Worst case scenario is that they drop 2 games and win 2. Improving to 8-4 would be a good showing from a 7-6 year. I will hit play now.

Navy L 23-21
@Pitt L 27-22
Connecticut L 33-30 2OT
@Stanford L 45-38

Four losses in a row and 2 of them to winnable opponents was completely unacceptable. Charlie Weis would be released from his duties and someone would have to come in to clean up his mess. Enter the Brian Kelly rebuilding effort. We will start with the 2010 season.

2010 Brian Kelly 8-5

Purdue W 23-12
Michigan L 28-24
@ Michigan State L 34-31 OT
Stanford L 37-14

At this point this team is 1-7 in their last 8 games. They sit at 1-3 for the year. Things don't look so good. The team was more of a shell than was originally thought. Would this squad implode as last years did? The next 5 games are pretty telling.

@ Boston College W 31-13
Pitt W 23-17
Western Michigan W 44-20
Navy L 35-17
Tulsa L 28-27

Now at 4-5 only 9 games into the season it appeared that we would face another end of the year implosion. With a road game at USC, a game against #14 Utah, and a service academy (Army) game which had been a bother for us as of late, this could be a 4-8 season with no bowl game. Then this happened.

Utah W 28-3
Army W 27-3
@ USC W 20-16

Notre Dame would outscore these 3 opponents 75-22. They would put a signature stamp on this season and close it by demolishing Miami 35-17. The Utah game is the marker for the start of the Brian Kelly era. When you look at the whole picture and how the team progressed over the season, you can see that they have made rapid progress from a team that collapsed at the end of 2009 to one that finished so strong in 2010. Are these years the model for a Notre Dame squad? Hell no. They are the obvious picture of a rapid rebuilding effort in progress. When you consider that Coach Kelly will more than likely be 9-4 at the end of this season, never being blown out once. Next season we are going to see Bobby Bowden's famous quote carried out in real life.

"When you're trying to build a program, you go through four stages: You lose big, you lose close, you win close, and finally you start winning big."

You lose big: The beginning of 2010 (1-4). You lose close: The middle of 2010 (3-2). You win close: The end of 2010 and all of 2011 (12-4). I think that next year will be a win close year too, with 2013 and 2014 producing the win big situations. It is amazing how people have completely forgotten in the last 2 years what kind of a mess Charlie Weis left us. We are being rebuilt and we are being rebuilt faster than I could have imagined Brian Kelly could do it.
Last edited by coach_kelly on December 7th, 2011, 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Brian Kelly is rebuilding Notre Dame. Charlie Weis almost destroyed Notre Dame. Once you remember these facts, the rest is petty bullshit.
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Re: Victory Over Florida State

Postby algoldendomer » December 7th, 2011, 6:50 pm

9-4, against a significantly easier schedule, is about equivalent to last year's 8-5. Both years contained a horrendous loss. Both years will have included a bowl win over a mediocre opponent. A bowl loss and an 8-5 record, with as many very good seniors and juniors as Kelly has, would represent a step backwards. I shudder when I ponder that this team could have five losses.

Now he's not going to get fired, win or lose, but 17-9 is only 65% and not good enough to be the coach forever. 16-10 is .615 and Willinghamesque. He'd better find a way to win. One more 8-5 season and a third loss to scUM and I'd be looking for another coach.
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Re: Victory Over Florida State

Postby algoldendomer » December 7th, 2011, 6:55 pm

You are comparing Brian Kelly to Charlie Weis - a very low bar. Fact is, in Weis' last season, he went 6-6. Kelly improved to 7-5 (a one-game improvement), with a bowl win, in 2010, which was a start. Kelly is at best going to improve by one game (and may well have the same record) against a signficantly easier 2011 schedule. NO PROGRESS WAS MADE THIS YEAR, despite all the RKGs he's brought in.

He had better show significant progress in 2012.
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Re: Victory Over Florida State

Postby algoldendomer » December 7th, 2011, 6:57 pm

Regarding Army, which "had been a bother of late" - did you bother to look up when the last time Notre Dame played Army before 2010 was??

You've lost all credibility. A bother of late.
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Re: Victory Over Florida State

Postby coach_kelly » December 7th, 2011, 6:59 pm

algoldendomer wrote:9-4, against a significantly easier schedule, is about equivalent to last year's 8-5. Both years contained a horrendous loss. Both years will have included a bowl win over a mediocre opponent. A bowl loss and an 8-5 record, with as many very good seniors and juniors as Kelly has, would represent a step backwards. I shudder when I ponder that this team could have five losses.

Now he's not going to get fired, win or lose, but 17-9 is only 65% and not good enough to be the coach forever. 16-10 is .615 and Willinghamesque. He'd better find a way to win. One more 8-5 season and a third loss to scUM and I'd be looking for another coach.


If you want a definition of tunnel vision. This is it right here. You deserve to fail algoldendowner. People with your limited vision will keep Notre Dame in the dark ages for another 10 years. You have to look at the body of work as it really is.
Brian Kelly is rebuilding Notre Dame. Charlie Weis almost destroyed Notre Dame. Once you remember these facts, the rest is petty bullshit.
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Re: Victory Over Florida State

Postby coach_kelly » December 7th, 2011, 7:00 pm

algoldendomer wrote:Regarding Army, which "had been a bother of late" - did you bother to look up when the last time Notre Dame played Army before 2010 was??

You've lost all credibility. A bother of late.


The comment was about service academies. Let's talk about credibility LOL. Go re-read it. You'll see that it had not so much to do with Army as it did with the pathetic losses to service academies. You know - Army, Navy, Air Force.
Brian Kelly is rebuilding Notre Dame. Charlie Weis almost destroyed Notre Dame. Once you remember these facts, the rest is petty bullshit.
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Re: Victory Over Florida State

Postby coach_kelly » December 7th, 2011, 7:06 pm

algoldendomer wrote:You've lost all credibility.


This is the best compliment I have recieved all day. Thank you for keeping me outside of your circle of approval. I couldn't live with myself if I shared your vision. :lol:
Brian Kelly is rebuilding Notre Dame. Charlie Weis almost destroyed Notre Dame. Once you remember these facts, the rest is petty bullshit.
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Re: Victory Over Florida State

Postby coach_kelly » December 7th, 2011, 7:09 pm

algoldendomer wrote:9-4, against a significantly easier schedule, is about equivalent to last year's 8-5. Both years contained a horrendous loss. Both years will have included a bowl win over a mediocre opponent. A bowl loss and an 8-5 record, with as many very good seniors and juniors as Kelly has, would represent a step backwards. I shudder when I ponder that this team could have five losses.

Now he's not going to get fired, win or lose, but 17-9 is only 65% and not good enough to be the coach forever. 16-10 is .615 and Willinghamesque. He'd better find a way to win. One more 8-5 season and a third loss to scUM and I'd be looking for another coach.


Next year will be a 9 or 10 win year. That is for sure. If Rees comes back he may shock the world!

Then you are looking at a 3 year body of work that reads 8-5, 9-4, 10-3. That is improvement over Weis 9-3, 10-2, 3-9, 7-6, 6-6. No, I am not comparing him to Weis for coaching purposes, I am comparing him so that you may contrast what a shitty coach looks like versus a great coach. The shitty coach is Weis in case you were wondering. Brian Kelly would never turn in a 3 win season.
Brian Kelly is rebuilding Notre Dame. Charlie Weis almost destroyed Notre Dame. Once you remember these facts, the rest is petty bullshit.
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Re: Victory Over Florida State

Postby algoldendomer » December 7th, 2011, 10:01 pm

coach_kelly wrote:
algoldendomer wrote:Regarding Army, which "had been a bother of late" - did you bother to look up when the last time Notre Dame played Army before 2010 was??

You've lost all credibility. A bother of late.


The comment was about service academies. Let's talk about credibility LOL. Go re-read it. You'll see that it had not so much to do with Army as it did with the pathetic losses to service academies. You know - Army, Navy, Air Force.


NO, YOUR POST WAS ABOUT ARMY. The last "bothersome" game ND had against Army was in the 1990s. There have only been a couple games in the last 15 years or so.

You were trying to make an unimpressive beating of Army look more impressive, and you FAIL. If you have to resort to windowdressing to support "your man" then you are hopeless.

I'll bet you right now that Brian Kelly doesn't last two more years as ND's coach. Too many serious personality flaws.
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